The Path to Authenticity: Mastering Technique While Staying True to Self

Brooke Young: 00:00:00

Being here with Justice is so special for me on so many levels. I have grown up with Justice.

I've known Justice for so many years, and he actually shared with me that this is his first podcast interview, and he's so excited. So I'm so happy to make a dream come true for a dear friend of mine. I know you guys are going to love him as much as I do.

Brooke Young: 00:00:21

Campus Chronicles is the ultimate podcast for college students seeking real stories, honest advice, and empowering insights to thrive in student life and beyond.

Hosted by Brooke Young and the Campus Chronicles team, this weekly show features inspiring interviews, practical tips, and conversations that tackle the challenges, wins, and personal growth that comes with university life. Perfect for college students, campus leaders, and young adults looking to make the most of their journey one episode at a time.

Subscribe now on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube and join the community redefining what it means to thrive in university.

Brooke Young: 00:01:07

Justice. Thank you for being here.

Justice Gardner: 00:01:09

Of course. I'm so excited.

Brooke Young: 00:01:11

Well, I'm so excited to have you. And I know as we were discussing this episode, one of the things that came up is the arts. But before we go there, what is your.

I'm going to use the term Campus Chronicles, but what is your story of being a young adult in these years?

Justice Gardner: 00:01:29

Oh, well, I'd like to start with something. One of my Campus Chronicles, which was the audition process for college.

So it was just rejection and being able to take notes and take criticism and being able to run with it instead of letting it weigh you down.

So I think anyone around my age that's going through any type of trial and error, especially with auditions, that's something that you really need to learn.

Brooke Young: 00:02:04

And I want to talk about auditions here because justice is such a gifted performer. He's a gifted dancer, he's a gifted actor and mover.

And when he said the word rejection, I was instantly so surprised because I have seen this guy's gifts.

But it's hard when you put yourself out there and you are rejected and you aren't seen for who you are, and it starts to wear you down, and you think that there's something wrong with you. What did you learn through the audition process?

Justice Gardner: 00:02:35

Oh, well, I. Well, as an artist, especially performing artists, you're. It depends on how young you are when you start. Right.

So I started when I was around nine, ten years old. Um, so the rejection is something that comes and goes, obviously.

But when I think about especially my time now and trying to get jobs and book people and getting people to book me, it Is it. You have to learn that some people know more than you do.

And being able to take what they say and add it to your own practice and your own technique, that's what's gonna make you a better artist.

Brooke Young: 00:03:20

Mm. And the other component of that, too, is people are always gonna have feedback on us.

They're always going to have something to say, especially when it's as personal as our art, as our craft. How do you stay true to yourself, though, as an artist while still taking feedback during that process?

Justice Gardner: 00:03:40

Oh, that's a great question. So especially now that I am not as much of a performer as I am a mentor, teaching younger.

The younger generation how to express themselves through art. It is. It's confusing, to say the least.

But you have to have a sense of confidence, and you have to be humble, so you have to be able to say no and be okay when people say no to you.

Brooke Young: 00:04:14

How do you. How did you gain that confidence in saying, I'm not comfortable to do this?

Justice Gardner: 00:04:22

Honestly, it still grows. I'm a very anxious person.

So when I think about my situations where I have been given an opportunity that didn't seem quite right to me, the idea that I have the bodily autonomy to say that I'm not comfortable, that, honestly, it gives you a lot of power, especially when you're working with people that have an image for you. If that image doesn't align with what you believe and who you are as a person, you have every right to just decline.

Brooke Young: 00:04:59

I like that you said the word image, because I know when you're playing roles and you're playing characters, it's so easy to let your identity become wrapped up in this image of how someone else wants you to become. How have you. Cause I know this was a struggle for me and the arts. How have you rooted into your own identity?

How have you got to know justice so deeply that when something's not right for you, you can say thank you and pass?

Justice Gardner: 00:05:22

Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier. Um, I feel like this is a little off topic, but the. The true freedom of art is freedom. And, yes, what brings freedom is technique, in my opinion.

So if you know all of the ins and outs, you are able to move freely. You're able to come up with ideas off the top of your head because you don't have. You don't have to go back to your references every time. It's. It.

When it becomes technique, it becomes routine. And when it's a routine, you don't have to ask anyone else's permission for it. Right.

So when you know what you're doing and you know what you're talking about, and you're educated, but also willing to be educated, that's when a lot of the easier stuff comes. When it comes to internalizing art and making something your own, how do you.

Brooke Young: 00:06:20

Find the balance between being educated and willing to be educated?

Justice Gardner: 00:06:24

Oh, that's. That's good questions.

Brooke Young: 00:06:27

Well, I am a professional question asker. I pride myself on asking some good questions.

Justice Gardner: 00:06:33

So when I am. Let's just say that I am dancing with, I don't know, Dayton Ballet, or, I don't know, something like that, I.

One, I need to know that the context of what I'm in is really important. And if I am lost to what the atmosphere is, if I'm too lost in my head to understand the vision of the person that is bringing me in, then I am.

I'm kind of doing a disservice as an actor. Obviously, you're given a script, but if you do the script the same way that every other actor has done that role, they're not going to want you.

You need to be able to take criticism, as in, like someone saying, put more emotion here, put less emotion here, but you need to be able to do it yourself. And that's kind of where the technique comes in.

Brooke Young: 00:07:36

Have you developed your technique? What's been, I guess, the best way you found?

Justice Gardner: 00:07:42

So, as a. I was raised as a concert dancer, so I had a lot of strict ballet rules, and I was held to a very high, high standard, which, honestly, has helped me a lot. Having people expect things from me makes me expect things from myself. And finding my own technique, it is. It's difficult and it.

It hurts a lot sometimes, because you have to know that what comes naturally isn't always what's one healthiest for you. You have to unlearn how to do things that are easy. And that kind of puts you in a mindset that you can learn, right? Yeah, I think.

I think that's the easiest way that.

Brooke Young: 00:08:30

Makes perfect sense as a. As a singer, which is a little bit more of what I do. I know to your point about. It might sound.

It might be easy for you, it might not be healthy for you. And having someone critique your singing or your dance, because it's so personal to you, it can feel like a personal attack.

And I know for me, I genuinely struggled with that. It was very hard not to internalize it and make it. I'm wrong versus maybe something I was doing was wrong.

Justice Gardner: 00:08:58

Yes. And you. The whole point of Technique, it's, it's. If you think about it as knowing how to read and write. Right.

If you're sitting and waiting for people to read things to you, you won't be able to write your own story.

If you are reading more books, if you are challenging yourself academically, you're going to be able to excel in your own writing, in your own creativity. So when you take out any type of. Oh, what's the word? Discipline. Discipline is the word I'm thinking of. You have to be able to catch yourself.

And I think that's what technique is, is catching yourself when you're not exactly doing it the healthiest or the right way. Right way.

Brooke Young: 00:09:42

When you jump out of the pocket, whether that's singing or dance.

Justice Gardner: 00:09:45

Yeah. And that's why people want to listen to you, because you have your own style.

But when your style is based in technique, and you know that it is, it has a validity to it because it's worked and it works and that's how you grow.

Brooke Young: 00:10:02

I love that about technique. And one thing I've always loved about watching you, because I've had the pleasure to watch you perform quite a bit, is the joy that you bring to it.

And so there's this balance of technique and joy with art as well as you do have to find joy in the expression of the art. So how do you maintain that joy while performing at a high level?

Justice Gardner: 00:10:23

Well, if you were to ask like 13 year old justice, he would say there's nothing that good comes out of it. But now that I'm older and I'm teaching people that are younger than me, it is the journey.

If you are doing a 20 minute barre class or an hour long barre class, you have to take every movement that you're doing into your body and let it teach you. You can't sit there and grumble the whole time being like, when is it going to be hard? When is it going to be over? So I can do the easy stuff.

You have to learn how to enjoy the hard stuff and be proud of yourself for getting through it instead of complaining the whole time.

Brooke Young: 00:11:04

I agree with that. So you said something very interesting. You said, if I would have asked 13 year old justice, the answer would have been very different.

So your perspective on art has changed a lot.

Justice Gardner: 00:11:14

Oh, absolutely.

Brooke Young: 00:11:15

Tell me about the journey of that.

Justice Gardner: 00:11:17

So I am what you would call a gifted child. So a lot of things that are talent based come easy to me.

But when things are hard, it's a lot easier for a gifted person to give up because if it doesn't come natural, it's not going to come at all. But that was obviously 13 year old justice.

But now I've realized that the harder it is and the more you push yourself, the more you can do your own thing. So since I'm in college, I took a ballroom class and I love the style, but it's a completely different technique than what I know.

So why are we not doing that together?

Brooke Young: 00:11:58

Justice.

Justice Gardner: 00:11:59

Ego. So I could learn something new and then I can incorporate it into my own style. Yes.

Brooke Young: 00:12:07

Why are we not doing that, Justice? That's like I've always wanted to learn ballroom. Why are we not hanging out doing that?

But a better point is, you're right, is if you're good at something and you come across something that's challenging and it's hard and you feel like it's not coming naturally, it's very easy to give up.

Because if you've internalized your identity as I'm good at this thing, and then you come into a challenge that feels like the next right thing to say, this is not for me, and go back to what you excel at because it's comfortable.

Justice Gardner: 00:12:41

And I like to think that obviously everyone wants to be pushed out of their comfort zones a little bit. But what is art if you're not challenging it?

If you're not challenging one, the institution that brings it into the public and if you're not challenging yourself as an artist, because especially nowadays, like having your own voice and self expression is a form of rebellion.

So if you're not going to sit down and really understand where it comes from and the history of it and just say that it's all from me and not from the people that teach me and the people that put their blood, sweat and tears into the art, you're kind of losing the whole point of it. And I feel like that was a big issue for young justice because I saw myself as a dancer and not a student of art.

Brooke Young: 00:13:32

How did you make the shift?

Justice Gardner: 00:13:36

Once high school hit, once I realized that I no one is begging me to go to class every week. No one is putting a gun to my head and saying, you have to do your push ups and your sit ups today.

Like those are all things that I realized that I'm not going to get better by going to class. I have to do the work on my own, I have to educate myself.

And I feel like that's something that a lot of artists kind of miss because they want all the flashy things and all the big colorful stuff. But it really takes blood, sweat and tears.

Brooke Young: 00:14:10

It does. And to the point of missing the point of art.

It can be a very powerful, like you said, rebellion, or even just reflection or contemplation around the things that we've experienced collectively, the things that we experience individually. How do you use your art to share about you and what you feel and what you experience?

Justice Gardner: 00:14:33

So I like to think of art as a fingerprint. So, yes, I could copy someone else's technique. I could do this, that, or the other.

But at the end of the day, if I'm moving, I'm talking to you, I might be saying someone else's lines, but I'm still. It's my voice, it's my personality, it's my essence going out into the world.

And when I think about my own style and trying to incorporate that into, you know, the higher scheme of things, especially if it comes to a production, it all comes down to, am I feeling it? Do I have an emotion to give? Because if I don't feel anything, sometimes it's kind of hard because my job is to portray an emotion.

But if I don't feel the emotion, it's gonna be a lot harder. And you have to really work on it, on, you know, communication.

Brooke Young: 00:15:30

Do you feel like art challenges you sometimes to empathize or feel into characters that are maybe very different than how you would show up in the world? Do you feel like it challenges you to broaden your worldview?

Justice Gardner: 00:15:44

Absolutely. I was actually talking to one of my friends about this the other day. We were talking about abstract art.

And if a big canvas with just splatter painting is considered art, if you could sell that, if you can monetize off of that. And in my opinion, yes, I feel like if art is a fingerprint, every fingerprint is valid.

Everyone's lived experience is valid, even if you don't exactly don't think that they work as hard as you do. But at the end of the day, that's gonna. That's gonna. That's their voice.

And you can't silence someone's voice, even though they don't think that it's as complex as your own or what you're.

Brooke Young: 00:16:25

Used to or as valid.

What if someone is really wanting to create something, something in the artistic realm, and they feel like they're not good enough, or they feel like what they have to say doesn't have a place or value, what would you say to them?

Justice Gardner: 00:16:44

As someone who has felt that way many, many times? I would say study. Really educate yourself. Because the people that are confused are the people that don't know.

And if you are actively putting yourself into positions where you are, you know, watching videos about, you know, Alvin, Ailey and Graham and doing the work and figuring out how the art started and the people that fought for the art, they can realize why it's so important for you to keep trying and be a part of a community other than just a bystander.

Brooke Young: 00:17:21

And not everyone has to be. It's the same as, like, you're not everyone's cup of tea.

And I wish I would have known that when I was more involved in the arts myself, as I had a very specific archetype, I was good at one thing. And I tried to shame myself, I think, for not being good at everything versus acknowledging that it's all an experience to become more of you.

Cause really, what art has done for me is it takes away the layers of shame and blame and other things that I feel, things that I've picked up that maybe aren't mine to carry. And it reveals me. Right. It reveals me as I move through the process. And that's always what I encourage, too. You don't have to be perfect at it.

You can start at a later age. And I wish we talked about that more.

Justice Gardner: 00:18:07

Yeah, I. Back in high school, there was an older woman. I think she was. She was going gray, and she would take our ballet classes with us. And she.

She was doing all of the same combos, going across the floor with us. And I had the utmost respect for her.

I was scared to talk to her even, because at the end of the day, no matter what you learn, you have to start at zero. You might have some natural. Natural talent.

But what I'm learning about teaching children is that natural talent doesn't get you far unless you have drive, unless you have more technique. And when you're older, you have to be able to humble yourself and go down to the level of a child and learn.

Because, I mean, even now, I think that I know everything about dance, and I could be schooled at any moment. And it really takes the. The ability to sit down and look at yourself and say that, I don't know everything. And that's the art of art.

It's figuring it out and figuring out how you can explain a story differently than someone else.

Brooke Young: 00:19:18

100%. Have you ever considered. This is really quite an aside. Have you ever considered enjoying a new kind of art?

Have you ever dabbled in different kinds of arts that maybe. Yeah, you know, just try different things?

Justice Gardner: 00:19:32

I. You know, me, I dance. I've acted, I've sang. I make music, like, every day. And I think the only art form that I really did give up on was crocheting.

Brooke Young: 00:19:49

I like that. I like that.

Justice Gardner: 00:19:52

It just didn't work out for me.

But if I kept on trying, if I, If I sat down with myself and said, I'm not gonna, you know, go out with my friends this weekend until I finish this stitch, then that would force me to get better. It's just. It all depends on what you really care about.

Brooke Young: 00:20:11

And trying different, you know, trying different disciplines at any age in your life.

And it's more daunting to start at 18 or 20 or 25 than it is to start at 5 because we've internalized so much more about our worth and our identity and what failure means. But it is a courageous act of self love to go after a goal or a dream you have in the arts.

Justice Gardner: 00:20:36

And I feel like it's. It's intimidating when you find someone that doesn't, that doesn't have the technique, but they have the eagerness to learn.

Sitting side by side with someone who has, you know, danced for same amount of time that I have and doesn't have the same amount of recognition that I have. That's scary because they, they have the ability to take me down. They have the wherewithal and they have the, the. The fire to actually excel.

Where, as for me, I'm expected, and I'm also expecting of myself to just do it better than everyone else, but it really does. It takes rejection. It takes knowing that someone can be picked over you, and you're gonna have to go back to the drawing board at some point.

And I just feel like that's, that's kind of the beauty of it, because I can, I can sing on a stage and someone could mess up on a chord and it could be beautiful, but it's not always intentional.

Brooke Young: 00:21:42

And that point, not always being selected, somebody being picked over you, that used to really get to me. And it's because I wrapped so much of my identity up in being chosen. How have you learned to work with that?

Justice Gardner: 00:21:56

I think one thing that I have to tell myself is that I will be making art even if it's not seen. I will be drawing even if no one has an audience. You know what I mean?

And obviously there's two sides of that coin where maybe that's just not your audience, or maybe you misinterpreted what the audience needed at that moment. And it's. It's a conversation. You have to have a Conversation with the people that are watching you.

But it's, it's very hard to explain because if you've ever made music and put it out there and it gets three views or you make a TikTok and no one sees it, you have every right to not stop doing it. But as a true artist, you can't. You cannot stop dancing, you cannot stop singing, you cannot stop making art.

And I feel like eventually you will find your audience.

Brooke Young: 00:22:55

Yes, I 100% agree. It's a magnetic pool, right. Even for me. I'm working now, right. And as I'm working some days, I'll be very, very, very stressed.

And I go back to the same thing that I always have done, right? Is warm up the voice, spend 30 minutes just enjoying it, working out my head voice, my chest voice, my mix, all of that.

And then somehow I always feel better.

Justice Gardner: 00:23:19

Yeah. And I like the thing is you have those tools because you had the technique.

You had someone that was able to tell you when you were wrong and able to guide you into the right direction. So now you have it as a tool, not just as, you know, your weekly obligation to the arts.

Brooke Young: 00:23:39

150%. No. And at the time, like you said, sometimes I didn't always want to go, but it was always what I needed to do.

Justice Gardner: 00:23:47

And I like, I, I'm adhd, I'm a mover, I will go upstairs and get a snack and I'll be dancing the whole time.

But, and I don't explain it, there's a freedom, especially as a dancer, there's a freedom of being able to do a double pirouette with perfect, with perfect technique. Right.

I could, you know, spin in circles, but that's not going to give me the same freedom as being able to leap with a perfect split and utilize the things that I practice on my free time. And like I said before, technique is freedom. If you know how to use your voice, you can use your voice in any way you can.

If you didn't have the training, it's going to be a lot harder for you if you're, you know, self taught, which is still completely valid. But, but I don't know, you have to kind of.

Brooke Young: 00:24:39

It is more challenging. But no, I'm a big, I'm a big technique believer. I have a very, very hard question for you though. I'm confident you can do it.

So if you were going to give three pieces of advice to people in this university age.

Justice Gardner: 00:24:52

Okay.

Brooke Young: 00:24:53

What would the three pieces of advice be?

Justice Gardner: 00:24:58

Okay, okay, let me think, let me think.

Brooke Young: 00:24:59

Let Me think I hit you with a hard one.

Justice Gardner: 00:25:01

You did hit me with a hard one. I would say first. I don't know why, but the first thing that comes to my mind is not everyone is your friend, but not everyone is out to get you.

So just because you and Ali sue are auditioning for the same rules does not mean that you have to hate that person. But it also means that they aren't going to have your feelings involved when they end up getting or don't getting that part.

So you kind of have to understand that, yes, kindness is completely needed in the arts. But don't tear yourself down because someone. Yeah. Better than you. What's another thing that I would.

I would say to a young artist around my age, you're getting older, your body is going to start rejecting and it's going to start like, hating on you for no reason. You gotta keep pushing or else you're gonna have arthritis. At 25.

Brooke Young: 00:26:00

Yes, I can. I can attest your voice will start hating on you for no reason.

Justice Gardner: 00:26:05

And that's the thing about technique, is. Cause you have to. It's. It's not like riding a bike. You can't do it once and then remember it for the rest of your life. It is brushing your teeth.

You gotta keep it going or else it's gonna get dirty. And I think my third piece of advice, I. I feel like everyone says this, but talk. You need to. Oh, what's.

What's that big, big word that I'm thinking of? I can't remember the word, but I'm good with words.

Brooke Young: 00:26:40

What's the word? Oh, we're not sure. I love this. I love this moment. This is the best.

Justice Gardner: 00:26:51

You gotta go around and talk to people that know more than you, people that know objectively less than you. Different generations of the same art style and talk to them about how they get through things.

Because you might have been doing this for 15 years, but someone who's been doing it for 16 years might know something that you don't.

Brooke Young: 00:27:15

Yes.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:16

Networking.

Brooke Young: 00:27:17

Build your network.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:18

Yeah, Bill, There we go.

Brooke Young: 00:27:20

What's that word? Networking. That was a Little Mermaid reference. I don't know if you got that one or not. By the way, fun fact to everybody and to Justice.

I don't know if justice knows this. That was my number one audition song was Pretty World from Little Mermaid. Believe it or not.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:37

Really?

Brooke Young: 00:27:37

Yes, it was.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:38

I feel like I did know that.

Brooke Young: 00:27:39

I feel like I did that.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:40

I don't know why I knew that, because I just remember being in Aladdin with you and thinking she has such a Disney princess voice. Such a Disney princess.

Brooke Young: 00:27:50

Thank you.

Justice Gardner: 00:27:50

Of course.

Brooke Young: 00:27:51

And I love you too. And I'm so grateful that you've been able to come on.

You had so much incredible wisdom and insight and expertise to share with our audience of so many people who are creating and learning and growing. And we just really, really appreciate you sharing all that you did.

Justice Gardner: 00:28:08

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Brooke Young: 00:28:11

I'm so grateful to have you. And where can people follow you if they want to learn about you and your art?

Justice Gardner: 00:28:17

Oh, yeah. I have two Instagrams account. Two. Two Instagram accounts. One is my personal at J Ray Ronnie.

And then I have a dance account which is pretty small but slowly growing as we speak. And it is called Justice Dance Official, also known as Makeme Move. So if you want to go over there, check me out, see what I have to offer.

That's what I got.

Brooke Young: 00:28:46

Absolutely. I want to say a big thank you for coming on today. I hope you had a ton of fun.

Justice Gardner: 00:28:50

Yeah, I had so much fun. I was excited about this. I've always wanted to do something like this.

And being able to talk so freely with someone that I know so well, it's a blessing, honestly.

Brooke Young: 00:29:03

It's a blessing to have you and it's always fun for me to have people I love in my space.

So I wanna say a big thank you to Justice for coming on and I wanna say a big thank you to everyone for joining us on another episode of the Campus Chronicles podcast.

Brooke Young: 00:29:18

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Brooke Young: 00:29:34

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